When non-Christians are asked to describe the typical Christian, words like smug, homophobic, judgemental, hypocritical and closed-minded are often the first things that come to mind. According to atheist-turned-Christian Brad White, there's a good reason for these adjectives: too many Christians really do fit these descriptions. So Brad founded Changing the Face of Christianity, an organization devoted to educating Christians about negative Christian stereotypes and why they're true.
Christian hostility is no surprise to non-theists. We've experienced the aggressive intolerance of our non-belief first hand. But even Christians are often embarrassed by their brethren. Many Christians forget even the most basic lessons of Jesus:
- Judge not, lest you be judged
- The meek shall inherit the Earth
- The peacemakers will be the children of God
- You are not your brother's keeper
But before I had a chance to check Brad's web site, Hemant Mehta over at FriendlyAtheist.com did a rather harsh critique of Brad. Since Hemant prides himself on tolerance – the name Friendly Atheist is really true – I was rather surprised. I decided to check for myself.
It's worse than Hemant says. Just about every article on Brad's site is condescending and, yes, judgmental and hypocritical. Here are a few choice samples.
On homosexuality: "Homosexuality is a sin (It is a sin, just like many other sins heterosexual sinners commit everyday, but we are not allowed to say it.)"
In other words, God says you're a sinner, but we'll put up with you and feel sorry for you and treat you with respect, like we would any defective person.
On Atheism: "How questions were answered, in many ways, increased their superficiality and led to their lack of belief. ... Here is another quote from a conversation I had with another Atheist: 'When I was 12, the nun who was my teacher grabbed me and shook me while telling me I would go to hell if I didn’t stop making trouble by asking questions in catechism class.' The result is skepticism and disbelief…superficial faith. The result, more often than not, is a lost soul."
In other words, it's the Christian's fault that led to a lack of faith. The atheist's inquisitive mind, intellectual investigations and rational conclusions are unimportant.
On hypocrisy. "However, the reason why hypocrisy is an issue in the Christian church is because we’re the ones preaching about living a more holy or pure lifestyle. You don’t hear many agnostics or atheists telling other people how to live."
In other words, atheists have no morals, so they can't be accused of hypocrisy! (I find this one to be particularly disgusting. The facts are so against Brad on this one.)
On cursing. "Whereas in evolved cultures and societies common decency in communication is a virtue, the opposite is often true when talking with the other side ... You [Christians] are not allowed to be offended. Only they can be offended by your desire to be civil."
In other words, atheists are often rude and foul-mouthed.
I really admire Brad's motivation. Christians don't realize just how they come across to the average non-theist or to people of other faiths. I applaud Brad's motives, but his web site falls flat.
Brad has fallen victim to the very deepest belief of Christianity: "We're right and you're wrong." There is no room in Christianity for doubt. Brad has taken on the "big three" memes of Christianity:
- Monotheism: there is only one god, Yahweh, and all others are false.
- Intolerance: I'm right, you're wrong. There is no room for debate.
- Godly-origin-of-morals: Only Yahweh can say if something is right or wrong.
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It's pretty ludicrous. The argument against gay marriage is a microcosm of the wobbly ground Brad stands on. He waffles about the nature of homosexuality, admits taht Christians shouldn't be trying to legislate civil rights, and then tries to claim marriage for Christians. A civil union is a "separate but equal" distinction and has no place in this country.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, you can't be a firm believer in a religion without the mindset of "I am right and you are wrong" - the two just go together. That's how faith works. If you don't feel that way, you don't believe it strongly enough to make that the foundation of your life.
The problem I have with the Christian community at large is that they want to legislate their religion into law. They want to teach intelligent design, they want to outlaw things they find immoral, and they want everyone to respect this one religion while also shoving out others, like OK and Sharia law).
If religious persons could keep their beliefs and religion-specific morals out of law, I don't think there would be this clash. The problem is that it isn't live and let live. Ask "Families Leader", the absolutely ludicrous organization led by homophobe Bob Vander Plaats trying to impeach Iowa Supreme Court judges after successfully ousting three of them, including our Chief Justice, in November. There is no tolerance here, no understanding that atheists, agnostics, and adherents of other religions do not follow the same strict dogma of a given religion.
I enjoy reading your blog. Keep up the great work!
Craig, here are the points I (R. Brad White) made on my site, your misinterpretation, and my clarification:
ReplyDeletePART 2 OF 2...
On hypocrisy. "However, the reason why hypocrisy is an issue in the Christian church is because we’re the ones preaching about living a more holy or pure lifestyle. You don’t hear many agnostics or atheists telling other people how to live."
Craig A. James: In other words, atheists have no morals, so they can't be accused of hypocrisy! (I find this one to be particularly disgusting. The facts are so against Brad on this one.)
R. Brad White Clarification: Atheists have morals. Never said they didn’t. Never suggested they don’t. But I’ll say it again. Christians by and large are the ones out there telling other people how we think they should live. The context was on fighting back hypocrisy among Christians. It’s hypocritical to even suggest how anyone else should live if we aren’t living by what we preach. The only hypocrisy I’ll claim against atheist is many atheists I’ve encountered act as if reason and logic and “the facts” are most important (I too think they are very important). Then, they (atheists) allow their own emotions, ego, and pre-conceptions to fog their interpretation of someone else’s words,…completely ignoring reason, logic, and “the facts”. But alas, I’m simply defending myself here. Someone else will have to take up the cause of hypocrisy within atheist circles.
On cursing. "Whereas in evolved cultures and societies common decency in communication is a virtue, the opposite is often true when talking with the other side ... You [Christians] are not allowed to be offended. Only they can be offended by your desire to be civil."
Craig A. James: In other words, atheists are often rude and foul-mouthed.
R. Brad White Clarification: Yes, I will agree with you that some atheists are sometimes rude and foul-mouthed. I can’t claim that atheists have the corner on the market on that though. Christians are just as foul-mouthed from my experience. But no, your “in other words” are not my words. The context of the article you misinterpreted was again…what a chrisitian is not allowed to say in a conversation with atheists, because the words we use often cause irritation and retaliation and end discussions. I was attempting to help Christians stop the negative cycle. We (Christians) are not allowed to say “be nice, stop cussing, your words are offending me” even if those words are offensive. I believe that’s called Tone Trolling. It is interpreted as us applying our morals to you, and attempting to control you and censor your voice. And so, the atheist is OFFENDED and replies back to “go To to F-ing hell, don’t tell me what I can say, etc…”. And so, my point is that instead of being civil, what turns out to be virtue IS the cussing. We are not allowed to ask atheists to be polite (due to us being offended), and so we are told by Atheists what we are not allowed to say (because they are offended). For the record, cussing doesn’t offend me…and I’m a Christian. Say what you want .
Craig, one of the problems I’m working on is how to bring our two sides together. We can’t do that if we misinterpret each other’s words and then go for the jugular. What I’d ask is if you have a concern over something I’ve said…ask me for a clarification before saying “in other words, brad is saying…”. I’m happy to hear YOUR words on a topic, but don’t tell me what I’m saying. That’s my job.
(sorry if this is posted several times, I kept getting a browser error)
ReplyDeleteCraig, here are the points I (R. Brad White) made on my site, your misinterpretation, and my clarification:
PART 2 OF 2...
On hypocrisy. "However, the reason why hypocrisy is an issue in the Christian church is because we’re the ones preaching about living a more holy or pure lifestyle. You don’t hear many agnostics or atheists telling other people how to live."
Craig A. James: In other words, atheists have no morals, so they can't be accused of hypocrisy! (I find this one to be particularly disgusting. The facts are so against Brad on this one.)
R. Brad White Clarification: Atheists have morals. Never said they didn’t. Never suggested they don’t. But I’ll say it again. Christians by and large are the ones out there telling other people how we think they should live. The context was on fighting back hypocrisy among Christians. It’s hypocritical to even suggest how anyone else should live if we aren’t living by what we preach. The only hypocrisy I’ll claim against atheist is many atheists I’ve encountered act as if reason and logic and “the facts” are most important (I too think they are very important). Then, they (atheists) allow their own emotions, ego, and pre-conceptions to fog their interpretation of someone else’s words,…completely ignoring reason, logic, and “the facts”. But alas, I’m simply defending myself here. Someone else will have to take up the cause of hypocrisy within atheist circles.
On cursing. "Whereas in evolved cultures and societies common decency in communication is a virtue, the opposite is often true when talking with the other side ... You [Christians] are not allowed to be offended. Only they can be offended by your desire to be civil."
Craig A. James: In other words, atheists are often rude and foul-mouthed.
R. Brad White Clarification: Yes, I will agree with you that some atheists are sometimes rude and foul-mouthed. I can’t claim that atheists have the corner on the market on that though. Christians are just as foul-mouthed from my experience. But no, your “in other words” are not my words. The context of the article you misinterpreted was again…what a chrisitian is not allowed to say in a conversation with atheists, because the words we use often cause irritation and retaliation and end discussions. I was attempting to help Christians stop the negative cycle. We (Christians) are not allowed to say “be nice, stop cussing, your words are offending me” even if those words are offensive. I believe that’s called Tone Trolling. It is interpreted as us applying our morals to you, and attempting to control you and censor your voice. And so, the atheist is OFFENDED and replies back to “go To to F-ing hell, don’t tell me what I can say, etc…”. And so, my point is that instead of being civil, what turns out to be virtue IS the cussing. We are not allowed to ask atheists to be polite (due to us being offended), and so we are told by Atheists what we are not allowed to say (because they are offended). For the record, cussing doesn’t offend me…and I’m a Christian. Say what you want.
Craig, one of the problems I’m working on is how to bring our two sides together. We can’t do that if we misinterpret each other’s words and then go for the jugular. What I’d ask is if you have a concern over something I’ve said…ask me for a clarification before saying “in other words, brad is saying…”. I’m happy to hear YOUR words on a topic, but don’t tell me what I’m saying. That’s my job.
Brad - thanks for your comments and for your private email. I want to spend time thinking about your reply so it may be another day before I post something.
ReplyDeleteCraig/Brad/readers, we have recorded a longer response to an email Brad kindly sent us. We go a little deeper into the issues there if you care to listen and comment. Its here - http://podcastlaboratory.libsyn.com/the-skeptics-testament-extra-with-dan-kerr
ReplyDeleteAll the best,
Dan from The Skeptics Testament Podcast
Brad - Just a quick note on blog mechanics. Your first attempts to post were marked by Google (bloggspot.com) as spam for no apparent reason. I marked them "not spam" and then re-deleted them because that way it doesn't flag that material as spam-like in the future. Sorry for the inconvenience! I'm working on a reply...
ReplyDeleteSee today's blog for a continuation of this discussion.
ReplyDeleteCraig, first I have a comment on your 4 points that you claim Jesus said, the last being "you are NOT your brother's keeper". Where do you get that from? You're exactly wrong. The first thing that came to mind was Mathew 25, where it says that Jesus will judge people for NOT being their brother's keeper, i.e. taking care of them; it says that for those who "fed the hungry, gave a drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, visited the sick or in jail, or took in the stranger, whatever you did to the least of these my brethren, you did unto me. " and those who Did these things would go to heaven, and those who did NOT to hell. This scripture is going to be used to judge everyone. It is called 'separating the sheep and goats" whereby a friend of mine once spoke about someone having a "sheep and goats ministry" meaning that in their neediness, God was using them to judge others. Very heavy stuff.
ReplyDeleteI invite you and any other atheists/scientists to go to my website and read my article "Letter to an scientist/atheist". 1prophetspeaks.com
I have a diverse background, having studied the sciences at an ivy league school & cosmologies, read new age books for 10 years, am a lifelong musician (music is a spiritual phenomena, it transmits "spirits" and is inspired by the spiritual realm "inspiration" means "a spirit goes into it" and became a Christian 20 years ago, having been brought up Jewish. Was always a freethinker.
My faith is based not on dogma but experiences in the presence of God thru worship music, and God speaking to me to confirm that His word (the bible) is true and Jesus IS the son of God.
The reality of God is perceptible thru our senses, we can hear him speak to us, feel his presence (the Holy spirit) and see him in visions, all of which I have done.
Just to clarify that for those who think "hearing voices" is just hallucinations, you're mistaken. We ALL hear voices, as thoughts in our head. They come From the spiritual realm, not biology. The word "inspiration" means "a spirit goes into it". The new testament says there is wisdom from above and wisdom from below; so christian theology teaches there are only 2 sources of spiritual information. Other religions believe in more. Hinduism believed in many spirits, which are invoked by different scales in music (ragas) which cause different emotional states. The ancient Greeks had a similar belief. Some Hindus believe in many gods, and others see them all as manifestations of one god. Whatever they are, they are not material. They are energies in dimensions that normal vision doesn't see, but that we CAN perceive. Scientists now talk about many dimensions; superstring theory postulates 11; this is another way of thinking about what we call spirits; energies or life forms in dimensions other than what humans and animals occupy. angels and demons are such entities.
For those of you who think that 'hearing voices' is just hallucinations or symptoms of psychosis, you need to realize that idea is just a psychiatric worldview which is atheistic in its orientation; these experiences are simply defined as non-real by the materialistic non-spiritual worldview of psychiatry, hence categorized as "hallucinations"; but that is a lie. They are just as real as our other 5 senses, though different. sometimes voices in our heads cross over the line and appear to be audible but usually they are at a lower level and just appear to be thoughts. You can read my FREE book on my website that God inspired me to write about psychiatry; Manual for Transformational Healing-God's Answer to psychiatry. It talks about atheistic psychiatry, their toxic drugs and how to be healed of mental & physical illness thru prayer. I have been healed and healed others this way, so I am speaking from experience, not just theory.
1prophetspeaks.com
One of the points about healing is this: all diseases, both mental and physical, are caused by spirits who have 'assignments' of those diseases. They can be rebuked in jesus name, and the person is healed. I have been healed of asthma, cancer 7 other diseases this way. Spirits are contagious, like germs, they can be transmitted thru physical contact or even just talking. I have had the experience of picking up a spirit of depression from someone who had it; one person was taking anti-depressants, prayed for me, and suddenly I was crying for no reason, having picked up his spirit. Someone else prayed for me, and it left. Another time, I picked up that spirit from praying for someone else; i coughed spontaneously and it left. This is how I know these spirits are real and jump around. Drugs are openings for demonic oppression; this includes caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, pot, lsd, etc and all psych meds. and the spirits they invoke can infest others thru communication or contact, like germs. People drinking caffeine and talking to someone else can transmit a spirit of agitation or addiction. This is why pot smokers speak about a "contact high" where a non-smoker gets high thru contact with other who are high. Read more about healing at 1prophetspeaks.com
ReplyDelete1prophet, mental illness was believed to be supernatural for centuries with no resolution. My Christian mother is a social worker witha ll sorts of certifications and degrees in behavior and psychology, and she would beg to differ about your assertion that mental illness is as simple as an evil spirit.
ReplyDeleteA contact high is a simple matter of easily-understood physics. You don't inhale smoke through spirits; you inhale smoke that has already been inhaled and also what is smoldering from the smoking object.
Your argument is like saying that you inhale spirits ina burning house. You inhale smoke from what is burning.
1prophet, there is a foundation of understandable and provable science that people can stand on. We no longer need to believe in rock spirits and tree spirits or gods of war and love and fertility. If you think you hear literal words of god, I would urge you to get in touch with a mental health professional. Clinical depression is not healed (or "caught") through prayer; the very definiton of clinical depression requires much more than momentary or fleeting sadness. There's a book called DSM-IV that explains all of this.
You've obviously come to your own conclusiosn about the nature of existence and reality, and for that I certainly cannot deny that you are a free thinker. Your assertions that medicines that can contain anxiety, depression, and other mental health disorders fall short of prayer is just dangerous, however, and I can't just let it stand there without some kind of rebuttal. Relationships with others and a support structure can and do help, but it is not about spirits that control us.