The Pope once again reminded us that even though scientists might be right about the Big Bang, it was God who caused the Big Bang in the first place.
"The universe is not the result of chance, as some would want to make us believe. Contemplating it (the universe) we are invited to read something profound into it: the wisdom of the creator, the inexhaustible creativity of God."Sorry, your holiness. There's a fundamental principle in nature: Entropy. You can't make a perpetual-motion machine, and you can't create complexity from nothing. A machine that produces energy requires more energy to feed it, and a system that produces complexity also requires energy to feed it.
Here on Earth, the development of life, including our incredibly complex brains, was driven by a staggering influx of solar radation. The sun pours 1.2 gigawatts (that's a billion watts) of energy per square kilometer of Earth. When you consider that a modern iPhone or Android phone takes just a few kilowatt-hours of energy to produce, and a few watts to run, the sun is drenching Earth with a staggering amount of wasted energy. It's no wonder that a tiny amount of complexity, the stuff we call life, was able to arise out of this stunning and relentless flood of energy.
The Roman Catholic Church made a significant step forward when it embraced science and evolution. Its persecution of Galileo was an infamous and embarrassing episode. To their credit, they recanted and embraced Galileo's science, and went further to embrace all science. Well, almost all science.
Sadly, it seems the Pope missed one of the most important lessons. Yes, we're talking about good ol' entropy. The problem with the Pope's theory about the Big Bang is that it doesn't explain God. Benedict XVI would like us to believe that God was so smart he could create a universe with incredible precision, one which would tick away for thirteen billion years and then *poof* humans would appear who could submit to His will and fulfill His plan.
That seems like an incredible waste ... thirteen billion years and a staggering number of sterile planets, suns and galaxies. But even if you accept that (or decide the Pope has a bad case of innumeracy), there's a worse problem. A god who could do that would be far more complex than the universe itself. That's just basic entropy. So ... where did God Himself come from? Somewhere you've got to accept that something just is.
Why invent an impossible God when a simple universe is much more plausible?
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"Why invent an impossible God when a simple universe is much more plausible?"
ReplyDeleteYou really think logic is somehow even remotely important to a cult that covers up child abuse and crowned an insanely irresponsible and unethical woman like Mother Teresa a saint? Come on, man, you're giving 'em way too much credit.
The only thing that surprises me about this is your surprise, Craig. We're talking about a man who is the leader of a belief system that supports their version of a universal myth as the best and believes Genesis is basically true.
ReplyDeleteRibs, anyone?
Something that I think about this "but God must have done it" thing is that it will never end. Even if scientists come tomorrow with an explanation, a cause for the Big Bang, the pope would simply come and say "Ah! But God must have caused that cause".
ReplyDeleteSo I guess were stuck with that stuff, at least for a while.
This proves what I said earlier on a later posts comment section. Do you really think demeaning the Pope and his belief in God makes you seem more Rational or Intelligent?
ReplyDeleteSimply declaring him wrong, and saying God doesn’t exist, is also not evidence that he’s wrong, its simply an assertion on your part that in turn rests on your own Religious Tenets.
Just saying that God doesn’t exist doesn’t mean that God actually doesn’t exist, and you know the Pope may just be Right.
Zarove needs some basic education on logic. Craig isn't saying here that God doesn't exist, he's pointing out that the Pope's reasoning is faulty and that his conclusion that "God did it," is unsupported by the evidence.
ReplyDeleteThe Pope himself, with his Nazi history and his support of an institution of serial pedophiles demeans himself constantly. He is a revolting excuse for a human being, and it's absurd that any rational person affords him any credibility at all.
Herr Palpatine may just be right, but so might George Lucas, or Tolkien, or Steven Hawking. It takes an intelligent & rational person to examine the available evidence and come to logical conclusions.
Craig comes off here as alot more Rational & Intelligent than Zarove.
"Simply declaring him wrong, and saying Santa Claus/Batman/Mithra doesn’t exist, is also not evidence that he’s wrong, its simply an assertion on your part that in turn rests on your own Religious Tenets."
ReplyDeleteI'm from the religion of the non-believers in Batman.
There are two Anon’s here. To the “Non believers in batman” one, plase do actually make a Valid Point to discuss.
ReplyDeleteTo the other.
Zarove needs some basic education on logic. Craig isn't saying here that God doesn't exist, he's pointing out that the Pope's reasoning is faulty and that his conclusion that "God did it," is unsupported by the evidence.
But Mr. James’s assertion that the Pope simply aid “God did it” is itself not really what the Pope said. How is it Logical to criticise someone’s words without actually examining the basis of it?
The Pope himself, with his Nazi history
I broke this off because one thing I tire of is false accusations designed mainly to blacken someone’s name. I am not, by the way, a Catholic, but I do find these sorts of comments rather distressing, sort of like watching Glenn Beck discussing Liberal Politics.
The Pope’s NAZI History is limited to him being a pat of Hitler Youth, which was Compulsory at the time.
It’s not like Master Joseph Ratzinger joined the NAZI party as a willing participant and help to their beliefs, he was simply forced into the Hitler Youth Programme like all boys his age were. If the Pope’s NAZI Hisotry is to be held against him, then all German Men over he age of 65 are likewise guilty. Of course its absurd to pin that sort of thing onto them, and we don’t, we reserve it for the Pope as if that makes sense.
For someone who wants me to learn to use Logic, this really seems to be Hypocritical. How logical is the NAZI assertion?
and his support of an institution of serial pedophiles demeans himself constantly.
You know, the Paedophile Priest charge is not accurate. Catholic Priests are actually far less likely to abuse Children than schoolteachers, and most Sexual Abuse occurs in the Homes. The media just cling to this as it was sensational, and people like you cling to it to attack “Religion”… its all rather pedantic.
Worse, even the Cover-Ups should be understood in Historical context. They mainly happened 30-60 years ago, in a time when institutions, all institutions, tried to save face and avoid scandal.
You have to actually understand people in the context of the world they live in, and we should always judge Historical situations in the context of the times they occurred in, not by today’s standards.
ReplyDeleteHe is a revolting excuse for a human being, and it's absurd that any rational person affords him any credibility at all.
1: No one mentioned the Pope. Just as I find it peculiar that we divide people between “Religious” and “Atheist’ even though Religion is not defined as belief in God, I also find it odd that all Religious people are somehow now assumed to be Catholic.
2: How is he Revolting/ His NAZI Past would be expected for a man his Age form Germany, and Hitler Youth was a mandatory Programme for Children his age. The NAZI Claim is simply one you use to justify an irrational Hatred. Also, Joseph Ratzinger was not Pope during the Sex Abuse, nor was he even in a Position of Power.
Petty things like these reveal why I a unimpressed by today’s Atheism.
ReplyDeleteHerr Palpatine may just be right, but so might George Lucas, or Tolkien, or Steven Hawking.
You know, the Herr Palpatine only adds to why I don’t think of the “Nonreligious” people as particularly Logical or Rational…
Also, Tolkein was Catholic. If Tolkein was Right then so is Pope Benedict the 16th. Lucas is a Liberal Christian with some interest in Eastern Religions, last I checked. Granted that’s not too often.
As for Hawking, I’m sure he’s right sometimes and wrong others.
It takes an intelligent & rational person to examine the available evidence and come to logical conclusions.
But, you simply hurl insults and demeaning stereotypes, and act as if cheaply made accusations can justify a Hatred for something hats clearly more complex and racially different form what you say it is.
How is that Logical?
Herr Palpatine?
ReplyDeleteCraig comes off here as alot more Rational & Intelligent than Zarove.
Well of course he does. All Atheists come off as more intelligent and Retinal than the Religious people, because we are just gol durn stupid. We know because you lot say so endlessly.
But you will forgive me for not beign overly impressed with your own Rational Capacity and intelligence.
Unlike you with me in reverse, its not because you are an Atheist, its because your comments make no Logical Sense.
Is it Logical to say someone is a NAZI based on forced attendance at Hitler Youth Programmes? Is it Logical to use the standard Smear of Paedophile Priests even though the Gathered evidence states that Statistically Catholic Priests aren’t really constantly raping Children?
Of course that has nothing to do with Mr. James. After all, to my knowledge he has not made such base statements. I may be wrong as I’ve not read all his Blog ( And certainly not everything he’s ever written), but in this thread at last, not him personally.
But it does reflect badly on you.
The point is precisely that I don't have a valid ponit.
ReplyDeleteIm just from the religion of the non believers in Batman. It is my personal dogma and that's all (apparently).
And by the way, you have quite a nerve, asking for a valid point to discuss.
Anon, you illustrate why the "I have no religion so I’m logical and rational, and all those religious people are irrational fools" line of thought prevents rather than promotes True reason.
ReplyDeleteIf you assume A Priori that I can't claim anything I say as valid or logical unless I am an Atheist who attacks Religion, then you clearly set your on beliefs up as unquestionable, and produce only an echo chamber effect of self confirmation.
The Big Bang is about dead anyway - it just has too many holes in it. Dark Matter, Dark Energy – these are poor attempts to ‘fix’ the bang, but cosmology is moving on. Perhaps to a ‘timeless’ (no beginning, no end) universe. Talks about one alternative: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/25492/
ReplyDeleteIt is so simple. God is and and always has been. Humans cannot comprehend God. You fools try to understand and find evidence that he doesn't exist. But you all have that doubt in the back of your minds. Everyone does. God made it so that everyone would have this feeling. Quit trying to prove that God doesn't exist and just accept it. And someone explain to me what nothingness is. You can't. You will never understand what was here before things were here. God designed everything. I promise on my life that God exists. This isn't a scientific fact. It is the truth. The truth. Accept that you are wrong and will always fail at proving God doesn't exist. It is impossible for us to understand
ReplyDelete