At the "Value Voters Summit" this weekend in Washington, D.C., Bryan Fischer of the American Family Association (the legal hit men whose mission is to make America a Christian Nation) had this to say:
"No matter what you think of the mythical separation between church and state, it is not possible for there ever, in the United States of America, to be a separation between God and government because God is the source of every single right which government has a sacred duty to protect. Now, I submit to you that not a single one of our unalienable rights will be safe in the hands of a president who believes that we evolved from slime and we are the descendants of apes and baboons. Now, if you doubt me, look at the nation states in the 20th century which rejected the creator God of the Judeo-Christian tradition – Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, Communist China. The one thing all of these secular states share in common is dead bodies."In other words, all scientists are Stalinist Nazi Communist murderers. I guess I'd better find some new colleagues – I had no idea!
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Where do people get these stupid ideas about God being the source or inspiration for all of our laws? That says a lot about a person: like they've never bothered to read the very 1st amendment to the Constitution. I think people should be worried that we have serious presidential candidates who, not only have never read the document that they will swear to uphold if they're elected, but who proudly refuse to accept established scientific theories (ie, reality). It's frightening.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I understand the NAZI retirement wasn't atheistic. Christianity or at least their own version of it was one of their main tools and justification for some of the discrimination that was carried out.
ReplyDeleteVid, its clear that he was presenting a false dichotomy; either you have nations that are religious or you have horrible autocratic regimes responsible for atrocities. Of course, I'm sure he only wants his religion to be in charge, because we wouldn't want to end up with a terrible Islamic regime. And he conveniently glossed over the highly religious, Christian nature of the Nazis; I guess we can ignore all those belt buckles on the uniforms that said "God on our side."
ReplyDeleteWe've seen too many people get by with implying bigoted ideas by using the "but those weren't my exact words" defense. We're wise to it.
Vid – it was a rhetorical joke designed to make a point. I get tired of jerks like Fischer who try to tie atheists to Nazis, Communists and various historical atrocities. It's utterly repugnant and inappropriate.
ReplyDeleteAnd in this case, he wasn't even aiming at atheists. His attack was much broader, trying to tie anyone who doesn't believe in creationism to Nazis and Communists. It's deplorable. The AFA should be ashamed.
I'd be willing to bet that Fischer or someone close to him has had life-saving medical treatments that were discovered and perfected by atheist scientists. He's an ignorant hypocrite.
Anon – you might find this blog interesting: Atheism IS where morality originates.
ReplyDeleteIt's disingenuous to insist on a link between Nazism and atheism, for AT LEAST the following 2 reasons:
ReplyDelete1. The Nazi's did not commit their crimes in the name of atheism. They just didn't. On the other hand, historically, plenty of crimes have been committed in the name of religion (e.g. to honor a God, or in the belief murder is his will, etc.)
2. Hitler (and other Nazis) wrote profusely about the superiority of Christianity. There is some controversy about Hitler's PERSONAL beliefs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_views), but many passages from Mein Kampf, for instance, show he referred to Christian belief constantly as a good thing and invoked God on many occassions. For example:
"The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will."
Believer or not, Hitler used religion to buttress nationalism and prejudice, and these had no small role to play in the crimes his regime committed.
Whatever Christians (and theists in general) would like to believe - and they believe much too much of what they want and not enough of what's true - the Nazis were intimately linked to religion and the Church, with which they had various agreements and which never ex-communicated a single one of them for what they did. The belt buckles of German soldiers at the time carried the slogan "God With Us".